Janet
Hi, Friends , thank you so much for downloading this podcast. I am thrilled that so many of you tens of thousands of you podcast every month, and I’m thrilled that you do that. It’s a wonderful service we’re able to offer you. And I love the way that this program can fit into your day, whenever it’s convenient and whenever you’re listening, I do hope you find the program to be encouraging edifying and equipping.
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hi friends. This is Janet partial. And I want to welcome you to the best of in the market today’s program is prerecorded. So our phone lines are not open, but I do hope you’ll enjoy today’s edition of the best of in the market with Janet partial. Here were some of the news headlines were watching. The conference was over the president.
Pastor Matt
Americans worshiping government over
Janet
God only rare safety rule by 10 years of Palestinians and Israelis.
hello friends. Welcome to in the market with Janet partial. I thank you so much for spending the hour with me. Listen, do you take the word of God seriously? I hope you do. So when you read in his precious and Aaron transcendent, immutable, absolutely filled with truth from the first verse of Genesis to the last word in revelation.
When you look at that book and it says that he is not willing that any should perish, what do you think he means by that? Or. When we read that God so loved the world, the cosmos that he gave, his only son that whoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life. That means it is the whole truth of the whole gospel to the whole world.
And I am so happy. We have an eternity. Because it’s going to take that long to hear all of the stories of how people came to faith in Christ. So pardon me if I sound a little bit excited, but I’ll tell you what these are. The stories that since I was a little girl, make my heart race so fast, I think it’s going to come out of my chest.
I love hearing stories of how people came to Jesus. It’s so humbling to see how he pursues us. We think we have found God, it’s the other way around. He pursues us and how thankful I am personally for that profound truth. And I love to hear how creative, how inventive, how. Unbelievably awe inspiring of the stories of how Jesus pursues people and draws them to himself.
Even in the most bizarre places. I mean, imagine, I don’t know, let me just pick a country Saudi Arabia. Now we know that this is the heart of Wahhabism, which is a particularly virulent form of Islam. We know there’s no such thing as religious Liberty in that. Country, you can’t bring a Bible in. We know that people are beheaded for crimes.
We know that people have their hands cut off for crimes. We know that there are vice police. It is a very, very difficult country, but it is very, very strategically important to the United States. So we have this geopolitical tension with the nation of Saudi Arabia, but there’s also an opportunity there for the gospel.
Not easy. But then again, in that book, I just referenced, where does it say it was going to be always easy to share the eye? Are you reading a version? I’m not because send it to me. I’d like to see that part. How I know is that we’re told to go and tell and the results we leave in the Lord’s hand. So I want you to know, I just love this medium of radio because it really sometimes puts me in touch with people I wouldn’t meet until we’re going to be spending eternity together.
So that’s the case with pastor Matthew Black. This dear man, who’s a senior pastor of living hope Bible church in Rosella, Illinois. Gets on the email, sends it to me and says, you can want to know about my friend. I wouldn’t know about his friend who I will introduce in just a moment because both of these dear gentlemen are with me this hour.
But if pastor Matt had not emailed me, I would know about this story. And therefore you probably wouldn’t know about this story, but you’re going to hear him. Let me tell you a little bit about pastor Matt first. He is, uh, as I said before, senior pastor, but he’s also studied theology and Spanish for his undergrad.
He’s currently pursuing graduate studies at faith Bible seminary in Lafayette, Indiana. He’s certified with the association of certified biblical counselors. He has been a foreign missionary in the Madrid and Bosc regions of Spain. How cool is that? Hence, the Spanish comes in real handy, assisting in the establishment of a church in Christian camp and enjoys living Hope’s Spanish ministry.
Enjoy supporting the Dundee Scottish pipe band. He had me at the pipe band, believe me and serving on the board of Bible visuals international and participating in the Chicago-land gospel network. So, yeah. Let me welcome you first, pastor Matt. And when you say Dundee, are you talking Scotland or Illinois?
Pastor Matt
talking about Scotland, but it also happens to be in Illinois.
Janet
Exactly. That’s terrific. Well, and thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the gentlemen that I’m about to introduce now, Dr. Omid Jackson is with us. He is a physician and I don’t want to say anything else other than he has written an absolutely stirring book called from Mecca.
To Christ. And here’s the subtitle first hint of his story, a true story from the son of the mechan Mufti on that. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for being here. So I just have to start from the beginning. Tell me what it’s like to grow up in Saudi Arabia. Tell me about your family and in particular.
Tell me about your father, please. Um, thank
Ahmed Joktan
Janet, for having me. It’s an honor to be with you today. Um, so I’m from, uh, Mecca, Saudi Arabia and growing there. It’s different than being here in the United States of America. Um, imagine, um, you know, go into Chicago where, um, and Chicago, all of a sudden become without any church and there’s really just Felice all around.
Um, so, uh, you know, growing in Saudi Arabia, it’s like, um, I don’t think any American can imagine how different it is unless you go there. Um, my, my father is in Islamic, most tea in Mecca and make it is the, uh, Holy site for all Muslims. Um, growing up, uh, goats, I went to the mosque five times a day. And one of those times is in the early morning, imagine in freezing cold Chicago, you wake up and you have to wash certain parts of the body and then you have to go to the mosque.
Um, so, uh, my, my, my father also is, uh, uh, a judge, uh, Sharia law judge. So, um, it’s, it’s based on, on, um, the Sharia law, um, that is based on the Quran itself.
Janet
So, yep. Very devout. And you went and worshiped with your father, help our friends understand you’re talking to people all across the country. When someone is a Mufti, what kinds of responsibilities does that bear?
What was she required to do as a Mufti?
Ahmed Joktan
If you read the Bible, you understand the rule of the farracies and basically he would, um, elaborate, uh, something is lawful or unlawful. So people would come to him and ask him, um, can we do this? Are we allowed to do this by the Sharia law? And he would tell them, yes, you can do this based on a one, two or three from the Quran or the center, um, or not, you cannot do that.
So basically that’s his role as a
Janet
Mufti. Now, this was important, obviously that you be devout as well. How important was the Koran when you were a boy growing up? So,
Ahmed Joktan
um, we, uh, we were, um, Uh, forced and encouraged to, uh, go to the mosque, um, and memorize the Koran. And, uh, I have memorized the entire Koran without a single mistake, not out of love, but out of fear.
Janet
Wow, let me pick it up at that point. Now I want you to remember the pastor Matthew Black is with us as well, and I’m going to fold him into the story when is the appropriate time. But again is an amazing story of a man raised by a Mecca Mufti in Saudi Arabia at a, this is sort of ground zero.
If you will, of Islam on planet earth. And yet the name of the book that he’s offered is from Mecca to Christ. So, you know, there’s a story there. Oh, and is there ever, we’re going to continue right after.
Has your love for them? Lord grown cold. Are you wanting a deeper, more meaningful relationship with him? That’s why I’ve chosen. Ignite your passion for Jesus has this month’s truth tool. This book will teach you how to move toward revival in your walk with Jesus ignite. Your passion for Jesus is yours for a gift of any amount.
When you give to in the market by calling eight seven seven, Janet 58, eight seven seven, Janet 15. Or go to in the market with Janet partial.org,
fascinating with pastor Matthew Black. Who’s the senior pastor of living hope Bible church in Roselle, Illinois, and Dr. Ahmed Jackson. Who’s a medical doctor turned evangelist and also author of the book from Mecca to Christ. So I’m going to, if I may, I’m going to go back to, you said something very intriguing just before the break.
You said you memorize the Quran without a mistake. You didn’t do it out of love. You did it out of fear. Why was there fear in this?
Ahmed Joktan
Well, um, if you, um, make a mistake, any verse in the Koran, it’s shameful. And, uh, to some Muslims it’s sinful as well. Um, and there is a punishment, if you do a mistake, for example, um, I did like about 20 Phyllis mistakes and, um, um, if I, um, did a mistake in a verse in the Quran, my teacher will place me in front of the whole mosque and it’s a big mosque and, um, I’ll be placed on the ground and my feet will be up and the will, you know, strike my feet.
Um, and it’s really, really hurtful. It’s painful. To the degree that I, I w I, at that moment, I wouldn’t be able to walk after that, then nobody would help me because I have done something shameful. I came from a culture of shame and honor, and to them, if you do something shameful, you’re basically done and nobody will help you.
And there is no mercy on that.
Janet
There’s so much that you have to teach us on meds. Let me ask you as a young boy growing up again, your father having a very prestigious position, and that was being a Mufti in Mecca, the holiest of all places for Muslims. And yet as you’re memorizing the Koran, you can’t make a mistake.
You can’t embarrass your family. You can’t make a mistake or be embarrassed in front of the leaders. You also right with the corral now memorized. It was time to learn how to wage Holy war for a law. Jihad is the highest honor for any Muslim. Let me stop. This is right out of your book from Mecca to Christ in a very often, you will hear people say, well, jihad means the personal internal structure that struggles that go on, uh, Christians would misinterpret that to say, Oh, you mean like the, the internal struggles that the apostle Paul talked about.
Right. But is that really what jihad means or was it really training for physical war?
Ahmed Joktan
Well, in the sense of Sony Islam, it is, um, a physical jihad of killing others. And, um, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s coming from chapter nine, chapter number nine of the Koran verse one, one, one, which is the only guaranteed way to go to heaven.
Is by the blood of someone. And we know as the believers in Christ that we are going to have him by the blood of Jesus. Um, and it’s really sad that nobody’s going to Muslims and telling them that you didn’t need to kill anyone else. Jesus already died for you. And that is the perfect sacrifice that, um, you, you could ever present to God to pardon you from your sins.
So yes, it’s, it’s out of that chapter of the Koran and its physical job
Janet
yet. It is physical. Wow. So you, this is chilling on a, you talk about the fact that you literally went to a camp. There were people from all over the world, you were instructed through videos, how to slaughter quote, infidels to military training through bomb-making and hand to hand combat.
Did you think that someday you were actually going to be called for the sake of our lives to have to take another person’s life?
Ahmed Joktan
Um, sure. You know, um, coming from a tribe, that’s kind of heritage and history. I was thinking that is my way. And I was thinking I will end up like those, uh, home ISO on, on those videos.
But, um, of course, um, I’m here now with you and it’s a God’s way. Not my way.
Janet
Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent, but it helps so that we can understand, so we can have a softer heart, so we can begin to understand how we can share the gospel with our Muslim friends. Did you truly think before you had an encounter with Christ, that your only way of making it to paradise would somehow be absolute allegiance to the Quran and if necessary, take the life of an infidel and that you would, in essence, if I can put it in these words, buying your way into paradise.
Ahmed Joktan
According to the Koran. Yes. And, uh, you know, um, the Islam that I grew up and the Sunni Islam, the white habits in particular, yes. You have to do that, um, in order to have a guaranteed way to go to heaven. And that’s why the nine 11 happened. And I’m sad to say that, but it’s based on that first in the Quran.
Janet
Yes. But it helps us understand. I mean, unless your heart changes, your worldview doesn’t change. So it, it makes perfect sense. But the story doesn’t end there, as you say, you’re joining me from California, we’re actually speaking at a conference. And the book is that you wrote is called from Mecca to Christ.
So here you are literally being trained in a Jihadi camp. Literally thinking that the time may come when you be called upon to take another person’s life and in, so doing, you would have been an absolute obedience to what the Koran taught. But that was not God’s plan for your life. And he shows up in a very miraculous way.
Ahmed Joktan
Yes. So, um, growing up, they did not teach us English because English is the language of infidel and infidelity. And, um, I graduated from high school and I wanted to join college of medicine. Medicine is taught in English worldwide and, uh, you know, go in there in the first class and seeing this different language that I’ve never seen before in my life.
Um, you know, um, failure. Um, came on the board, just like, Hey, you’re gonna fail. Um, you have to look for another way. So I went and I use Google translator. Um, I covered all those pages translate to Arabic, but that was time consuming. So, um, um, I went to New Zealand to study English, um, and after two and a half months, I saw a dream that, um, basically, uh, turned my life upside.
Janet
I love it. So you had a dream and what happens in the dream?
Ahmed Joktan
Yeah. So, um, two weeks prior to that dream, um, a man who loved Muslims, he prayed the Lord will send him someone from Saudi Arabia. That’s the Brian, um, from the Oakland Baptist tabernacle. He, uh, he said, Lord, you have sent us Muslims from Iran, from Iraq, from other nations, but no one from Saudi Arabia.
Lord, would you send us someone from Saudi Arabia? And he prayed with his church two weeks after that prayer. Um, while I was sleeping on my bed, the balcony opened up and, um, a light, a light came to the room. It’s like, you’re walking in a dark street with no light and a light, all of a sudden, you know, shine on you.
And, um, uh, the Lord said, come to me. I began to Trumble with, with tour at the glorious magic majestic person. And I said, where, where do you want me to come to you? The Lord said, go to the house of the white feathers. There you shall find
Janet
the truth, but let me stop right there. And I’m going to pick up the dream at this point.
Wow. What did I tell you about the Lord pursuing us were visiting with Dr. Ahmed Jackson and pastor Matthew Black. This is a powerful story, but it reveals exactly how big our God is. Do you know him today? I hope this story is stirring you to do some seeking on your own journey. Back after this
This is in the market with Janet partial and litter joy to spend time with pastor Matthew Black, senior pastor of living hope Bible church in Roselle, Illinois, and Dr. Ahmed Jackson. Who’s a medical doctor. Who’s now turned evangelists. And I’m going to go back to the dream in a minute, but pastor Matt, I just have to ask you, um, I’m a little old Bible church girl, myself, and growing up.
We didn’t, we didn’t do a lot of talking about Jesus showing up in dreams. And to this day, I know that there are people listening, going, no. No, no, no, no. That doesn’t happen. Talk to me. He is a pastor. When you heard this story, what went through your mind?
Pastor Matt
Well, I had the same reaction. No, that doesn’t happen, but apparently it does.
And God is reaching Muslims all around the world in this unique way.
Janet
Yeah, and we hear it again and again and again, but does it not go to what I said earlier, which is if the declaration in his word is that he’s not willing that any would perish, then why would he not use all means at his disposal, including dreams?
So I’m at, let me go back to you. So you’re having this dream. I love the fact that this dear man in New Zealand said, Lord, send me a Muslim from Saudi Arabia. You come, the Lord shows up to you in a dream. The Lord says to you go to the house of white pillars and there you shall find the truth. What was the house with white pillars?
Please pick up your story from there.
Ahmed Joktan
Yeah. So at that time I did not know the exact name of the building. All I saw is a building with white pillars. So, um, the Lord took me in a way, um, that is mission in the book, but, um, at the end I went there and that building is the Auckland Baptist tabernacle. And, um, it’s the church plans from London.
Um, have you ever heard about the, uh, famous preacher? Um, uh, Charles Spurgeon, um, his son. Yeah, his son went there to plant that church. So it is that church and it’s an old building. Um, it looked like a, uh, a room and, uh, kind of, uh, structure. Um, and to me at that time, it looked like a museum.
Janet
Hm. So you go, it’s this famous, uh, church in New Zealand founded by the son of Charles Spurgeon.
And what happens when you get to the church?
Ahmed Joktan
Yeah. So I entered the side, um, and, uh, you know, uh, Brian, um, he, uh, with a smile, uh, greeted me in Arabic and, uh, he told me to sit down and he asked me to tell him about the dream, which was striking for me. How would he know? Um, and then, um, I, uh, after I finished, you know, he, uh, he told me that I have seen ISA in my dream, um, You know, and then, um, he, um, uh, talk to me more about ISA from the Koran.
And, uh, it shocked me how this man knew about, uh, the verses of Jesus, uh, in the Quran. Um, I do know that there are many verses in the Koran that speaking about Jesus that is, uh, borrowed from the, um, the new Testament.
Janet
And ease of course is the reference to Jesus in the Quran. So he walks you through, he praise God, this man understood the Koran, knew the Koran knew immediately how to connect was able to show you what the Koran said versus what the Bible said.
He talks to you. And then why, and how did you decide to make the decision to give your life to Jesus?
Ahmed Joktan
Um, I would say because of the love of this man, Who, um, continued that endured all of my questions and he answered them, uh, first in a manner that, um, that I could understand. Um, he did not, um, bring the across to me, but he brought me, he lifted me up to the cross basically.
Um, so he talked to me from the Koran and about, um, who is the word of God in the Koran and the word of God, you’ll be surprised, but the word of God in the Koran is Jesus. You know, truth is truth and light is light. Doesn’t matter where it’s light. Um, and the glorious light of the gospel is also there, although it’s faint, but it’s there.
Janet
Wow. Wow. So all of us, those of us who can remember the specific day, we made this decision to believe Jesus, to ask him to come into our life, to take away our sins when you made that decision. And this is absolutely against everything you knew as a child growing up. It’s against everything you were taught in the Koran, you went through the ritual of five times a day going, uh, and, and showing up at the mosque bathing.
Prayering no memorizing the Quran going to Jihadi camp. I mean, Jesus could not be more different than everything that was in your DNA. Did you stop and say, wait a minute, this just might cost me if I make this decision.
Ahmed Joktan
Well at that time with the dream and, uh, with the love of, uh, Brian, that he showed me the love of God through Jesus.
Um, at that moment, I did not see the future, what will happen when I accept Jesus as my Lord and savior. Um, but after that I saw the cost, you know, but God was with me even through those times of trial.
Janet
Wow. So you come to New Zealand to study English. Do you then, and again, you’re going to be a medical doctor.
English is the language that’s universal in medical training. Are you going to go back then to Saudi Arabia from New Zealand?
Ahmed Joktan
Well, um, when that dream happened, I was trembling with fear and I called the travel agency and I said, please send me back to Saudi Arabia as soon as possible. And, uh, the travel agency told me that, you know, that the next available seat is a week from that time.
So I felt like trapped in that country. And for reason, So the Lord, um, was prepared me to meet Brian and to hear the word of God, Brian took me to John one in the beginning was the word and the word was with God. And the word is God. So, um, he took me from there and, um, he explained to me that, um, your word is with you and it’s one with you.
So Jesus ISA is one. God. And, um, when he came to New Zealand, you paid with New Zealand dollars, you could pay with your Saudi riyals. When you stand before God, you have to pay with a payment that is according to the standards of God. And Jesus is the only one that can satisfy that payment.
And again, look how God moves. So if you had gotten a seed earlier, perhaps you wouldn’t have had the dream, you wouldn’t have ended up at the house with the white pillars. You wouldn’t have met Brian. Brian wouldn’t have taken you to the word of God and things would be so dramatically different, but eventually you do get back in an airplane and you do go back to Saudi Arabia.
Now, remember that song that you’ve sung in shirts, I’ve decided to follow Jesus, no, turning back, no turning back. What price do you think Dr. Jackson had to pay? You’ll find out right after this.
Hi friends. This is Janet partial. I want to remind you that you’re listening to the best of in the market and today’s program is prerecorded. So our phone lines aren’t open, but please enjoy the rest of today’s broadcast right here on the best of, in the market with Janet partial.
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Had an amazing conversation with pastor Matthew Black senior pastor of living hope Bible church in Roselle, Illinois, and Dr. Ahmed Jackson. Who’s a medical doctor, turned evangelists. He has written the book from Mecca to Christ, a true story from the son of the mechan Mufti. Absolutely fascinating. So Ahmed, you come to faith in Christ, in New Zealand.
You then get on a plane, you go back to Saudi Arabia. And I said just before the break that sometimes we fail to realize. That Jesus paid it all for us. And if we choose to follow Jesus, we’re going to have some challenging times. And you certainly did as well. You go back to Saudi Arabia and you write in your book that you faced death death, not once.
But five times tell our friends what happened.
Ahmed Joktan
Yes. And I want to say that, um, in second Timothy three verse 12, indeed. All who desire to live a godly life following after Christ Christ, Jesus will be persecuted. So, um, yes, five times I faced this and the first one is. So when Brian, um, he, um, basically sent me off on the airport, then he gave me a gift and he said, this will guide you.
He knew that there’s no one in Saudi Arabia who can guide me in faith. So, um, and that gift was the new Testament in Arabic. And, uh, when my father, uh, found out that, um, I have a new Testament in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. Um, he, he did not take that lightly and to the point that people would take away 47 to my head.
Um, and, uh, you know, but the Lord, um, rescued me from that mode.
Janet
So he puts an AK 47 to your head and then you don’t die. Then you get arrested by the religious police. Why.
Ahmed Joktan
Yes. Um, you know, the light of the glory gospel was shining in my heart and it couldn’t contain that. Um, I am the fragile clay jar and I have this treasure that I want to share with everyone.
So I shared the gospel with a fellow Saudi, uh, person, and, uh, at the beginning he was agreeing with me. Um, but when I prayed in the name of Jesus, um, You know, he called the police and they came in and they, they start to beat the heck out of me without mercy in the U S wouldn’t have religious beliefs. Um, we have the police police, but, um, in Saudi Arabia we have the state police and we have the religious police and they knocked 13, 13 teeth off my, from my mouth.
Janet
Oh, Oh my word, because you’re not allowed to evangelize at all in Saudi Arabia. And so you now we’re paying the price another time the Saudi government goes after you with a tanker. Tell me about this.
Ahmed Joktan
So I used to go to a church that is 13, hear me out 13 hours each way. And then next door country, like you’re going to worship Canada and come back to Chicago.
Um, after a year of, of being there, I was, I was discovered and, uh, what splits in, in, um, In, in jail for a night. And they released me on terms that I would never go to that meeting. Um, but the book of HIPAA was telling me that I should not forsake that simply if the, uh, if the brothers church. So I drove back and, uh, probably I was a troublemaker.
So they wanted to make that look like an accident and they want, they wanted me to basically melt. Um, and that was the acid tanker. But God sent it to me from the Joseph death
Janet
and that’s time. Number three, then there two more occasions where you’re literally fired on with rifles. Tell me about that.
Ahmed Joktan
So that light is still shining in my heart and I couldn’t contain it.
So I continued to share the gospel, um, in, in Saudi Arabia and other countries. And, uh, because I became a troublemaker now, um, they started to realize that they should have, they should get rid of me, but they did not realize that I’m under the best witness protection. Program God’s witness protection program.
I witness for Jesus and he protects me all the time. So they started to shoot at me and I didn’t want to leave Saudi Arabia. I wanted to share the gospel because they know that not many people want to go there. The last person who went crazy in Saudi Arabia and share it everywhere was Paul angulation, one for 17 and 18.
Um, but it was, it was time for me to leave and the Lord made a way for me.
Janet
Wow. And got out of Saudi Arabia. Have you been back since.
Ahmed Joktan
No at first, definitely.
Janet
That has to be hard for you. Have you lost contact with your father?
Ahmed Joktan
Um, since that day, when he beat both AK 47 to my head, um, he basically disowned me because I was a shame on him and on my own, my tribe.
And since then, since I came from a culture of shame and honor, he wouldn’t even recognize me. It’s
Janet
so important for us to hear this because, um, we need to count the cost. Did you ever think? You know, it would have been a whole lot easier if I never had that dream. You know, if I, if I just hadn’t gone to the house with the white pillars, I wouldn’t have faced death five times.
I wouldn’t have been put out in my culture in my country from my father. Did you ever think it’s not worth it? Well,
Ahmed Joktan
um, after I’ve seen all that, I’m like, thank you God for making me go through all that. Because if I didn’t go through those persecution and trials, I would’ve known that you exist. I would’ve would have not known that Jesus loves me and I, would’ve never known that God is in control and those verses and the gospel are still alive and applicable today.
Janet
Amen. And amen. Pastor Matt, let me go to you at this point. And by the grace of God, Ahmed is in the United States of America. He’s teaching pastors, he’s written his book. He has this now fabulous ministry that we’re so grateful for. And by the way, you can learn more by going to my website and you can learn about Mecca.
To christ.org. This is a fabulous ministry. How does your life intersects with Ahmed’s? How in the world is this? Dear physician turned evangelists, just not an author of a book, but someone whose life intersected with yours. So
Pastor Matt
after, uh, he, he got hit at night by that ethic acid tank, or they had put it, um, with his lights out in the, in the street, um, in the, in the highway where he was crossing from that 13 hour journey to church, after that he was all scarred up and he had come to the United States, um, just to encourage.
Pastors and churches to reach Muslims for Jesus Christ and his pastor in, in a, another Gulf state country, um, recommended that he come to our little church, he had heard about it. And, uh, so what a long distance recommendation, I was kind of shocked. And I met him in June of 2016 and I was actually afraid of him.
When I first met him because I didn’t trust him. He, I came to find out that he’s a modern day, Arabian Saul of Tarsus, just like they did not receive Paul immediately. So it is, so it was with Dr. Ahmed and. And yet, um, he joined us, I heard his testimony. I was so moved, just like we’ve heard today. And he joined us for an evening service and he shared his amazing testimony.
It melted the hearts of our, our little congregation, and then he. Left to go back to Saudi. And I begged him not to go back. I knew his life would be in danger. We were on the phone probably every other day. It’s amazing through, um, through various, uh, WhatsApp and FaceTime and all of that. You can actually talk very well through these, uh, to other countries, but I said, you’re probably going to die.
So we need to start writing down your story and with tears of sorrow and joy. Uh, each day I went with him through his journey from Mecca to Christ, and I asked so much about his story and what Islam is like. And I wrote down everything that he dictated to me. And that’s, that’s the book that, that he just published.
Janet
Well, what an amazing story. It takes my breath away. At, let me ask you in the West, we have, and thank you, pastor Matt, for being so honest about saying that you were a little fearful of beginning. I think if we’re going to be transparent, I think that’s the case for a lot of Western Christians. I hate to draw those kinds of adjective lines around, but let’s just say here in the West, because we’re post nine 11, I bet you, 99% of the people listening to us right now, wouldn’t have even thought about Islam before nine 11, but that changed our way of thinking forever.
In the meantime, the Lord has brought the mission field from over there to right here. And now a lot of American Christians don’t even know how to begin to engage with their Muslim friends. They’re afraid. They’re don’t know if they don’t know where to begin a dialogue. They have no point of reference.
They don’t know. Unlike Brian in New Zealand, they don’t know the side-by-side comparisons between the Koran and what the word of God has to say. So they’re afraid to even engage. So I’m at, where do we start? How do we, if we like Jesus, don’t want to see anybody be eternally separated from a loving God.
And so we have these Muslim neighbors and friends and coworkers, but we’re afraid. Where do we start? How do we begin the dialogue?
Ahmed Joktan
Um, thank you for that question. And, um, yes, I see that around me and, um, I have been rejected from many churches, um, just because I am from that. Although I say Jesus Christ is my Lord, but I’d be cast it away.
Um, I would say love. L O V E the love of first Corinthians 13, let them see Jesus in you. I’m not asking you to be a scholar in the Quran or Islam, but I am asking you to read the Bible to read Jesus’ words, to pay them. And Jesus said, if you love me, obey my commandments and his commands are simply, this is the greatest commission go.
Ye. And make disciples of all nations. I know that it’s really difficult. I know that you have seen a lot of, um, the 1% of Islam, but most of the Muslims around you, there are nominal Muslims. I came from a very, um, of Islam that is the hobby Islam. But if you can’t love them, that’s the best that you can do.
Janet
Exactly. Let me pick up on that because I think that’s hugely important. And what a wake up call for the church, by the way. Aren’t we going to be surprised when we get to glory, I never thought they would have made it in. What do you think the church is going to look like in heaven? And by the way, this idea of rejection we’ve referenced our brother Paul on more than one occasion.
I bet he experienced the same thing that I’m addicted to time. And again, back after this,
no, no. What hearing stories like the one you’re listening to this hour due to you, but, Oh, it forces me to my knees. It reminds me of the price Christ paid for me and it reminds me of the price I might be called to pay for following him. We need to hear stories like those of Dr. AMA Jackson, this medical doctor from Saudi Arabia, the son.
Of a Mufti in Mecca. It doesn’t get any more intense than that in the world of Islam. And yet Jesus comes to him and his dream, old things pass away. All things become new. And Dr. Jacqueline’s name is written in the Lamb’s book of life and nothing. And no one can separate him from the love of God. So he writes a book with the help of his friend.
Pastor Matthew Black called from Mecca to Christ. A true story from the son of the and Mufti it’s there on my website for your perusal. If you’ll go to in the market with Janet parshall.org, click on that red box that says program details and audio takes you to the information page. There’s a link to Dr.
Jackson’s ministry and there’s the book from Mecca. To Christ as well. I’m at, let me go back to what you were saying before. Just love them. We need to just take a look at statistics. We have three and a half million. According to some data reports, we have three and a half million Muslims here in the United States.
When I was child growing up in my Bible church, we used to talk about going over there to the mission field. Now the mission fields right here in your own backyard. So showing the love of Christ is extremely important. You also point out that introducing our Muslim friends to other Christians is also beneficial.
Ahmed Joktan
I would say that that is beneficial. Because the light of Christ is in those other, uh, believers in him. And, um, I list the other, uh, Christians would show those Muslims, the word of God and read with them the Bible. Um, they would never come to know Jesus, if you secluded the Muslims, how would they hear?
Unless, you know, somebody there telling them. Right. Um, so it’s really important that, um, you, you show them, um, the love of first Corinthians 13. And, um, I’m sorry about, I have to say this, that Jesus in Matthew five verse 44 says, but I tell you love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. And I do that myself.
So, um, I would say to, to, to let them see that Christ in you and to read with them, The, uh, the words of, of God, um, that is more sufficient to show them the light of the gospel.
Janet
Wow. Amazing. I would love for you to share your story. You talk about God’s protective hand in your life. Coming from Saudi Arabia to the United States is no easy feat.
You really truly have to come seeking asylum. One would say after five attempts on your life, you’ve more than qualified, but it still takes a move of Congress to be able to get you asylum. Share that story with us. Um,
Ahmed Joktan
yeah, so, so I came here and I applied with, uh, almost 41 affidavit, um, uh, you know, written under penalty of perjury.
They had to swear under the penalty of perjury, that those things are true. And they came with, uh, pictures, videos, and even with intelligence reports from another country. And, um, from the get go, when I got to the asylum office, the officer was, um, just against me. And uh, with no, uh, reason. And, um, after the interview, um, we talked to another lawyer who, who looked at my case and said the decision is biased.
So we, we prayed. And, um, um, I was hurt that some Christians even said that my story is not true and I’m just making that up. And I remember that I closed my eyes and I prayed, Lord Jesus, you, you are my witness. I’m under your protection. Vindicate me, Jesus. And he, he answered my prayer and, uh, we began to, um, to talk to senators.
And, um, there is no reason that. Those senators and congressmen and women would come to my help, but God moved them to come to my aid and in no time. And especially, I’m thankful to the Senator of Illinois Dervin and to congressmen LA who than others. Uh, but those two are the first who stood by my side.
And, um, they, uh, they, um, Made inquiry to the immigration office and God just turned the table upside down in a day and a night.
Janet
Wow. And again, what we want to point out to our friends all across the country is that it ended up being. Bi-partisan support, which is a word we use here in Washington, DC. That means there were support from both sides of the aisle.
Again, an act of God that there’s no other way to define this. Um, I think it’s important for people to understand that when we look back at nine 11, is it true that you were related to some of the hijackers.
Ahmed Joktan
And I’m sad to say this, but that’s true. Um, those, uh, some of those hijackers were from my own tribe and, uh, I’m ashamed to say that, but, uh, that, that happened.
And, um, I’m thankful that Jesus took me from that deep dark.
Janet
Yes. But I want our friends to realize that. One until your heart is changed by Jesus Christ. Your life doesn’t change. Your worldview doesn’t change what you’ve been trained to believe as a child. What you’ve been trained to believe at the mosque memorizing the Cron doesn’t change until you have an encounter with Jesus, which pastor Matt takes us right back full circle to this mandate to really.
Declare the whole truth of the whole gospel to the whole world. I want to hear your heart as a pastor. When you hear that almond is rejected by some in the Christian community, because of where he came from, what his background is, what goes through your heart?
Pastor Matt
Well, having at first, um, not believed him.
You know, I have, I have a tender heart for those who, who might be suspicious, but it brings us back to the high cost of following Jesus. I’ve learned a new level of Christianity since I’ve met Dr. Ahmed that. Good Christ calls us to deny ourselves and take up a cross and do whatever it takes to reach people for Jesus Christ.
But I think, um, God, in these last days is awakening a sweeping church and giving us his heart for all nations. And so it’s incredible that this, this. Young doctor has come all the way from Saudi Arabia and is a member of our church. I wake up every day going, uh, I’m just completely amazed. And I know that God wants to do that with churches throughout America and the world.
Give us the heart of God.
Janet
Yes. Amen. And amen. Pastor Matt, I can’t thank you enough for introducing me to our brother, Dr. Dr. Jacqueline, and I pray that God continues to open doors for you to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ. To tell your testimony, you are a living picture of what it means when old things pass away and all things become new.
Thank you for challenging us. The followers of Jesus Christ to show the love of Christ to the world around us. That is the hallmark of distinction. And like you said earlier, we are all fractured earthen vessels carrying this imperishable message. Very, very thirsty world. Thank you for your courage. Thank you for your obedience.
Thank you for your testimony. And thank you so much. Both of you for spending the hour with us blessings, blessings, blessings, pray for pastor Jackson. You can imagine that there are some who’s now considered him. An infidel. So pray for protection and safety for him and pray that churches would welcome him with open arms hearing that kind of a message will put us back on mission as followers of Jesus Christ.
That great commission still to this moment remains great. The question is whether or not we will step into it in obedience. Thanks for joining us friends. We’ll see you next time on in the market with Janet harsher.
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